The Dude Therapist

What does it actually take to become brave? Not fearless, but brave? Not a personality trait you're born with, but a muscle you build one uncomfortable rep at a time. This week, Eli interviews Jill Schulman, one of the first female Marine combat engineer officers, a leadership researcher, and the author of The Bravery Effect. Together, they dig into what the science actually says about fear, courage, and why the people who seem the bravest aren't the ones who feel the least afraid. They're the ones who act anyway. Eli and Jill trace her path from the Marine Corps through 15 years in Fortune 100 corporate leadership to a decade running her own firm and studying how fear controls behavior. Jill breaks down the real difference between bravery and courage. She explains why "social bravery", the everyday fear of rejection, failure, and imperfection, quietly holds back far more people than the fear of physical danger ever does. She also shares how her research on anticipatory regret gives you a simple question to ask whenever fear is telling you to stay small. They also get into why attacking your hardest task first thing in the morning matters more than almost any productivity hack. They discuss the three zones of growth and why "embracing the suck" is different from burning yourself out. And they explore the one-word reframe — "yet" — that can quietly rewire a self-limiting belief. Jill makes the case that bravery isn't reserved for burning buildings and battlefields. It's built in the small, daily decision to move toward what scares you instead of away from it. If you've ever frozen up before a hard conversation, stalled out on a goal you keep avoiding, or wondered whether courage is something you either have or don't, this episode is for you. Topics Covered: Why bravery is voluntary action in the presence of fear, not the absence of it The real difference between bravery (what you do) and courage (who you become) Social bravery: the everyday fear that holds most people back How bravery is trained like a muscle, not handed out as a gift The "attack the day" strategy for using your peak willpower on your hardest task The power of adding "yet" to a self-limiting belief Comfort, discomfort, and distress: the three zones of growth What your future self wants you to do right now Why the right people around you make the leap possible How to tell if fear is a signal to run or a signal to move toward And more About Jill Schulman: Jill Schulman is a researcher, speaker, and author of The Bravery Effect. Her career spans three chapters: U.S. Marine Corps officer, one of the first-ever female combat engineer officers, 15 years in Fortune 100 corporate leadership, and a decade running her own leadership firm, Breakthrough Leadership Group. She holds a master's degree in positive psychology and has built her work around original research on how fear controls behavior, helping people become braver not just in heroic moments, but in the daily decisions that shape a fulfilling life. Connect with Jill 📖 The Bravery Effect by Jill Schulman - https://jillschulman.com/bravery-effect/ 🌐 Jill's website - https://www.jillschulman.com/  Connect with Eli & The Dude Therapist 📖 From I Do to We Do by Eli Weinstein - https://www.eliweinsteinlcsw.com/book  🌐 EliWeinsteinLCSW.com - https://www.eliweinsteinlcsw.com/  📱 Instagram: @eliweinstein_lcsw - https://www.instagram.com/eliweinstein_lcsw  🎙️ Podcast Instagram: @thedudetherapist - https://www.instagram.com/thedudetherapist  Chapters 0:00 Introduction & Meet Jill Schulman 2:47 What Is Bravery? (The Scientific Definition) 8:11 Surprising Research: Action Builds Confidence 10:03 Facing Your Biggest Fear (Skydiving Story) 15:10 Anticipatory Regret & Your Future Self 16:09 Embrace the Suck: Comfort vs. Discomfort Zones 21:22 Is Staying Comfortable Actually Dangerous? 26:25 Do Hard Things First: "Attack the Day" 31:38 What Everyday Bravery Actually Looks Like 34:24 The Power of Yet & Practical Tools to Start Now Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices